Issue #56: We Listen to Sarah Shook & the Disarmers with...River Shook

Their new album, Revelations, is out now

There’s something that River Shook said when we hopped into the Don’t Rock the Inbox Slack last week to talk about their new album Revelations with their band, the Disarmers, that really stuck in my head. “I will sacrifice perfection for passion every day of the week,” River told us, writing from their home in North Carolina. It’s an important reminder for any creative person - and, somehow, if you get the alchemy right, you get one by letting loose the other. Revelations is that kind of work, that explores weakness and redemption, fucking up and healing, love and the trouble with it…and what to do if an asshole guy tries to screw you over (one of my favorite tunes called “Motherfucker”). Released as Sarah Shook & the Disarmers, Revelations is born of brutal honesty and strikes the perfect balance between rock and country, which we were eager to talk to River about in the Don’t Rock the Inbox Slack room. Below is a lightly edited version of our chat, listen along as you read!

---

Natalie: To kick things off with the title track, what was different about how you approached this album in comparison to your previous ones?

River: Revelations was somewhat of a return to form; our first two albums, Sidelong and Years, were recorded with the whole band playing together with some light overdubbing and final vocal tracks on the last day in the studio. We worked with Pete Anderson on our third album, Nightroamer, and he wanted to record track by track, and ended up just dousing the vocals in autotune, stylistically.  I've always felt like the Disarmers magic is in our live performance, in our chemistry, and I really miss that when I listen to that record. So when it came time to make album four I was ready to take the producer role on and get back to basics.  I really wanted to capture that spirit of live performance as the foundation.

Natalie: Totally, that makes sense - I was able to catch you opening for Joshua Ray Walker (a while ago at this point...) and it was fabulous. The record really does convey that feeling!

River: I will sacrifice perfection for passion every day of the week.

Marissa: I may print that out and tape it above my computer...I also really appreciate how candidly you speak about your personal journey with sobriety and mental health and that fear of - can I still do this, will I still do this, if I get better? It’s meaningful how you put us under your dark cloud from the first line of the first song, and there's that journey out....

Natalie: As we move into "You Don't Get to Tell Me" (another amazing chorus that I'm stopping myself from singing along to), maybe you can share with us a little of the backstory of this song? And it would be great to hear a little about your songwriting process in general too.

River: This one is pretty loaded. Honestly I made it vague intentionally, but the general concept was that people who believe in God have no business telling trans and nonbinary people they're not real, or that their gender identities aren't real. Like the irony of that was really flooring me when I wrote that song.  Especially having educated myself and come so far. I had to confront substance abuse as a coping mechanism for my mental health or I was going to die.  Straight up.  By the time I quit drinking my body was already showing signs of the abuse.

Marissa: "I built my life on the edge of a knife" is such a killer line. It's wild how even in a "progressive" americana space or whatever we want to call it, singing about the existence of god is still a risky proposition

River: Sometimes I hate that I let it get that far but I've also learned to be compassionate to the person I was then.

Natalie: It's really beautiful that you're able to share that journey in your music, and beautiful that you were able to take that very very hard journey. Not to be trite but we're so glad you're still here, and still singing!!

River: I'm glad, too! 

Marissa: And it's so valuable to see so many musicians now dissecting these myths for the next generation: myths I grew up with, which was alcohol and drugs and even misery to some degree is essential for art

River: Absolutely!  I mean the younger generations just aren't drinking it seems like. Which I think is a sign of better/healthier coping skills for stress.

Marissa: [meanwhile I am listening to "Motherfucker" and I love that little laugh that comes through when you're singing at one point"...speaking of bringing the live element to the recording]

River: Ohhh man haha. Yeah I was really super pissed at this older dude in the industry who ripped me off when I had virtually no experience in the music biz.  I was complaining to someone about it and they were like dude.  Just write a song.  You'll feel better. And lo and behold... “Motherfucker” was born!!

Marissa:  Should be required listening for every cishet white soundguy imo

River: It's so relatable, too.  I was introducing the song at a show one time and said something like yeah we all have that one motherfucker in our lives and someone in the crowd yelled, "You only have one?!".

Natalie: That's incredible. It's soooooo catchy — I feel like so many of your songs have this almost danceable, fun, very show-ready sound. Good timing music, even when the things you're singing about are serious.

River: I think bringing a lightness to heavy issues with major chords and a catchy melody make hard things easier to face as a person and start a dialogue about as humans. It kind of strips away the power some of these things have over us.

Marissa: Fun songs about sad shit is the best genre. nothing heals like dancing and screaming, really.

Natalie: Speaking of which, "Dogbane"  "Well it's looking like the end of days..."

River: Ohhh yes.  How societal collapse and mass extinction is the great equalizer.

Natalie: Assuming there was some climate change thinking behind this one...

River: There are no hierarchies in the apocalypse. I channeled all my helplessness about climate doom into three minutes and the truth.

Natalie: That's real country music, isn't it

River: It's about more than that though. A little deeper. As humans we have this tragic tendency to wait for something awful to happen to make meaningful changes in our lives.  When we're ignoring our problems I call that "inviting tragedy.” Another part of Dogbane's message is, how do we learn to enjoy the simple things in life without waiting for something horrible to happen? I want to find joy in rain rolling down a windowpane NOW, not because I had to learn a hard lesson.  Not because it took the world ending to enjoy it! 

Marissa: I'd like this song on a mix tape with Sierra Ferrell's "Fox Hunt" and I can sit and ponder impending destruction and my survival abilities...while some some artists release 8 vinyl editions of the same record. anyway....that’s a very important reminder to put in a song also because it takes work! at least for me. I need the reminders. Not to turn this into my therapy session. But sometimes I need a song to tell me to look out the fucking window.

River: Everybody needs to get more nature, more peace and quiet, and to get laid.

Marissa: Your records have always done this so well, but the balance between the rock guitar aspects and the country twanginess is perfection on this album (I'm listening to “Nightingale”).

River: That I have to hand to Blake Tallent for this record. The man understood the assignment and showed up to the studio more prepared than anyone else! His melodies and riffs just make the record shine in all the right ways. “Nightingale” is all about how I didn't want this career, still have severe struggles with many of the things the job entails, but ultimately I can't change my nature. And it's the only thing I'm good at.

Natalie: As a producer, how are did you go about kind of capturing that live feeling and sound (and weighing those different influences) on record? 

River: There were definitely people who were not prepared at all, which was a massive disappointment.  And that made Blake's preparedness that much more foundational for Revelations. There were songs we had to try five different ways before we got a good feeling about.  “Stone Door” I originally wrote as a shuffle and as I was making my notes prior to going into the studio I realized we didn't need another shuffle.  I thought, I wonder what this would sound like with an outlaw country vibe. I have stubbornly included indie rock songs on our records because a) I don't want to be put in the country music only box and b) I think it's a creative way to introduce country music fans to something that might challenge them a bit, in a fun way. I love country music.  And I love indie rock.  And I can do whatever I want.

Marissa: Also a moment of appreciation for "Stone Door" and its man in black vibes].

Natalie: To backtrack a tiny bit, "Backsliders" is another one with just an addictive melody and arrangement - what is your process for refining those melodies like? You're a hook machine!!

River: “Backsliders” was the weirdest songwriting process. Usually I am linear, in hyperfocus, and songs or at least parts of songs all come out at once, almost completely finished. “Backsliders” I had to sit with for hours to get the melody and cadence of the lyrics exactly how I wanted them, it was truly a labor of love!

Natalie: well, it sounds effortless!

River: I think it's important to be sex positive and that comes out in my lyrics a lot.  Normalizing sex.  Casually mentioning sex without shame nor stigma attached.

Marissa: I am firmly of the belief that country music and adjacent genres need more sex.

River: Truly!  Less objectification and more consensual sex, y'all!  Get it together.

Natalie: "Jane Doe" is obviously one of the album's heavier cuts. What inspired that one?

River: “Jane Doe” on the surface is about homelessness and being thrown into a position where the choices available to everyone else are always just out of reach for you.  Poverty.  Fear.The underlying theme is victim blaming, whether it's someone who is a victim of domestic violence or a person who's on the street because the system failed them. America has a compassion problem.

Natalie: amen.

River: I've lived through abusive relationships, every time you see a dialogue about it online the question is always "why didn't she just leave" and “Jane Doe” fills in some of the blanks. 

Natalie: Obviously the country and even Americana spaces are not always the most inclusive or progressive. Have you ever felt tension when it comes to singing about things that you (and we) feel need to change?

River: I'm never afraid to sing anything I've written with my whole chest. I've gone out of my way to be clear about who I am and what I stand for, I've lost fans, and stunted the growth of my career just by being myself.  And I'm okay with that. Because the alternative, pretending to be someone I'm not, is not an option. I lived the first 20 years of my life in the closet, I ain't hiding who I am in any capacity again!

Natalie: Want to be respectful of your time, as you've already been so generous with it - can you tell us a little bit about "Give You All My Love" and "Criminal," to finish off the record?

River: “Give You All My Love” is one of my happier tunes.  We started working on it in the studio and I realized it wasn't finished, I wrote the third verse and bridge on the fly. I love how it borders on almost glib haha. I so rarely let myself indulge in romantic stuff, it felt nice.

Marissa: feels cathartic too, in the sequencing.

Natalie: The handclaps!!!

River: Aaagh!  The handclaps! That was me, Jack, and Blake.  We love each other so much, it was such a special thing.  And we felt very silly and it was fun. I wrote “Criminal” when a gross abusive ex was jealous of my friendship with a coworker.  It was in an-your-face way of saying this person wasn't allowed to control my friendships or who I loved.  And that developed into a much more important theme of gay and queer rights, it's an absolute insistence on autonomy. 

Natalie: "If loving you will always be a crime, I'll always be a criminal" is obviously such a great line.

River: I think we still struggle so hard for societal acceptance and legal protections that there's a pressure to keep up appearances.  But we gays and queers are normal everyday people who don't always get along with our partner.  I think it's important to paint a whole picture of ourselves and who we are, and that includes things that aren't so polished and pretty sometimes.

Natalie: Well before we let you go is there anything else about the album that you think is important for listeners to understand? Congratulations on it, really adding to a personal canon of great songs!

River: I don't want to be remembered as a spitfire performer or a renegade or for my social media followings. I'm a writer. And I want to be remembered as a great songwriter.