Issue #16: AMANDA SHIRES

On Bobbie Nelson, the Highwomen and her creative life

Amanda Shires is free. This is what I think when I watch her play songs from her solo records, like the most recent, truly masterful Take It Like A Man. This is what I think when I see her sing harmonies with The Highwomen, a concept and band that she created. This is what I think when I see her play fiddle with the 400 Unit, on stage with her husband, Jason Isbell. And this is what I think when I heard her bring us Loving You, a collection of songs performed in duet with the late Bobbie Nelson - her voice and fiddle alongside Bobbie’s lyrical, emotive piano. Free, for the way she moves through projects and genres like a bird hopping from nest to nest: always comfortable, always home, but always moving. She does not shift genres as much as the genre shifts around her. She stays free. She stays herself.

Two weeks ago, Amanda graciously joined us for our first ever Don’t Rock The Inbox live Zoom event. We found her in Los Angeles, in town to play with Isbell, painting watercolors outside at her hotel. Part of Amanda’s work has been placing women and marginalized folks back in their rightful places in music present and music history, and Loving You is that and more: it puts the focus not only on Bobbie’s greatness and influence as a player, but also on a connection of love and admiration between two artists spanning generations. The two had plans - to sing together, to shop together, to make more art together. Bobbie passed away in March of 2022, but Loving You is a real gift to her enduring legacy but also a gorgeous work of art centered in the present through the vibrant musicianship and thoughtful production with Lawrence Rothman. It’s also Texas as hell.

The full conversation and audio is only available to subscribers (of course, it’s never too late to become one) but we wanted to share some parts of our chat for everyone, because it was too good to keep to ourselves. Read on for stories about recording with Bobbie Nelson, Highwomen news and Amanda’s thoughts on how to fight writer’s block (if it exists) and stand your ground creatively in the studio, or anywhere. This interview has been edited and condensed. Subscribers - look out this week for a private link to listen to the entire audio in podcast form!

- Marissa

Photo: Joshua Black Wilkins

Natalie: Amanda, I actually just saw you last weekend at the Longhorn Ballroom in Dallas, with Asleep at the Wheel celebrating the release of Loving You. It was fantastic. How did you feel getting to do those shows?

Amanda:  It felt fantastic. I started out playing Western Swing and finding another player I can twin fiddle with is like returning to the small child within yourself. And it was also bittersweet, because Bobbie had a plan. She went on to the greater beyond, but we’ll probably reconnect there and finish our plan. Can’t be heaven without some damn shopping?

Natalie: Can you take us behind the decision to record this album with Bobbie?

Amanda: So I was making Take It Like A Man, and I was going to record “Always On My Mind” for it. I tried, and it turned out great, but then I said, you know, the way to do it is to get Bobbie on it because she knows the song inside and out, plus just her understanding and perspective. She said yes, I ordered some orchids because they were her favorite flower, and we went and recorded. Then we started playing other songs – some hymns, all kinds. We were just sitting around jamming and she said, “I think we’re going to make a record.” And I said, that’s a great idea.

Marissa: I love how the piano is so forward in the mix. Obviously that’s intentional, but it’s really unique to hear it like that, like a duet between you and the piano.

Amanda: We really paid attention to that. Her piano playing is so moving, you can really feel it. It makes you feel things and we didn’t want to cover that up. She was an actual wizard at music and so proficient. I keep saying effortless, but that was true. And she always made it feel like you could fly when you were playing.  

Marissa: And that sort of rolls into another thing that I that I've been thinking about a lot, which is how this album is part of the work of reframing musical history in a way with women at the center.

Amanda: Right. Definitely read her book with Willie, Me and Sister Bobbie. They alternate chapters. It’s amazing. But her life – to start off with, you’re going to live with your grandparents, because your parents can’t handle it, and then lose your grandfather, and then fast forwarding, because she’s playing with Willie in places that serve alcohol, she had her kids taken away. This is before women could even have a credit card or property or anything, but she finds a way to keep music in her life. All that to say, she gets her kids back, joins Willie and I think it comes down to having a center. She’s always been that person centered in faith, and home connection, and sense of self. I still can’t get over the fact she went through all that, and I’m very lucky I get to play on stage and drink wine if I want to, and have a kid without the government taking her away from me.

Natalie: To move back to Take It Like A Man, Marissa and I have talked a little bit about the sort of the response that you get because you make your marriage open to the public. But almost a year after it's been released, how has it been working through so much of that publicly? To do interviews together, that sort of thing.

Amanda: I feel actually better about it. I've learned a lot. I learned that there's a lot more than I even was aware of when it comes to the politics of sex and the politics of talking about marriage. It's in everything that anybody ever does when it comes to art, and things that I didn't consider before. But the part where we talk about marriage, the response has been really positive for the most part because more folks are are coming up telling telling me, “thank you for putting it out there.” I don’t know that I'm the expert here, but all I know is that I've had a hard time. After the record came out, Michelle Obama's book came out. And I love a lot of what she had to say about marriage. There's something in the water where we're feeling a little bit more at ease, in talking about things. And I think that's really nice.

Marissa: With social media, everyone shares more than they ever have before. So often we create this farce of what life really looks like for, for regular people, or for famous people and everyone in between. That's why it feels even more essential to be honest in creative work and art that we share, because we're fed so much dishonesty masquerading as real life.

Amanda: I agree 100%. But sometimes I like to spin it a little bit, just because I tend to be a little bit overly hopeful for mankind.

Marissa: I see that you’re painting now - can you show us what you’re working on?

Amanda: Well, I've been trying to figure out a way to paint while we stay on the road. I've been carrying around my watercolors. And it's not great or anything because I'm just practicing. One is a picture of my lilies. There's a picture I drew of my shoes that were outside of the hotel room last night. A self portrait of me and a cowboy hat at the Bobbie Nelson show without Bobbie Nelson.

Marissa: It might not feel this way to you, but to me that feels like discipline. Training yourself not to just go sit and scroll your phone and make sure you do a creative pursuit.

Amanda: See, the problem is is that in my life at home, the post office is always open. There's always somebody needing something because something needs to be done, and when you're touring as much as there's a lot of stuff that you miss and that you can't do regarding family and events and important life things, and you wind up getting trapped in a train for a couple of hours or in a plane for four hours and sometimes the Internet doesn't work. And next thing you know, you've got an hour before soundcheck, but that's not enough time to walk around anywhere. So sometimes it's just you're making the best out of the time that you have. So I wouldn't call is discipline. Sometimes I feel like it's just necessary.

Marissa: Do you get ever get writer's block?

Amanda: No, I get where I don't want to write about something I probably ought to, or I get a little bit of a page intimidation. Sometimes when I used to think I would get writer's block, it's more like you just gotta go do something for yourself. Observe something.

Marissa: So, I am dying to know: how was the Highwomen reunion at The Gorge?

Amanda: It was terrible. That was the worst show ever played. Ha, no, it was epic! We're gonna make a new record. Maren let it slip, so this time it wasn't me at least. I'm excited about it. It's nice to be back in that place again, coming out of COVID. We are going to do it, and I'm just glad I wasn't the one to announce it. Cause, you know, I have a tendency to let the secrets fly.

Marissa: So do you have a studio date and songs and everything?

Amanda: We’ve been playing songs for each other. And when we were talking about it last, I said, “why don't we just do the songs part first” So it's not like we're suddenly putting pressure on, and I think that's a really cool way to approach any kind of making art, which is to make the art that way so time doesn't influence it, or deadlines don't influence it. I mean, sometimes those things are necessary. It's good to be careful and take your time and be careful, be thoughtful. And I think sometimes things like immediately establishing a date, that'll encourage what people call writer's block, which is not a block so much as it's just a pressure on you to produce something. And if we don't have that, that feels like there’s no lid to get past. I don’t do well with a lid.

Natalie: Well, we will try to be patient then and let and trust the process.

Marissa: You’ve talked a lot about the idea of the lineup being very fluid?

Amanda: We’re gonna bring in buddies just like I did last time. We’re gonna invite everybody like last time and whoever wants to come can come and whoever’s schedules allow will come. Man, we had so much fun at that last time, it was like the dream was finally realized. Even though the actual whole dream would be straight up fairness and equality, and bodily autonomy, but part of the dream was realized.

Natalie: So we have a reader question here [editors note: if you join our Zoom events, you can ask the artists questions! super fun] - Brian here says the vocals on Loving You are so present and clear. Did Lawrence have specific things that you did to to get the vocal sound on that album?

Amanda: Yeah, we did. We have specific things we do. We don't work with any assholes. And anybody bringing in negative energy in the room, they're out. And we all criticize ourselves hard enough so that in our recordings, we're only allowed to do positive self talk and encourage one another and celebrate failure, and Bobbie was like that too. But yeah, we don't let just anyone in anymore. I'm over that shit. I'm not I'm not in here to try and meet new people anymore.

Marissa: That's really good general creative advice, to not let negative self talk in the room. Or assholes.

Amanda: It’s tough. We have this thing, where if we say something negative out loud, we have a rule: you have to then say things that are great about yourself. And it’s uncomfortable as fuck at first. But you get used to it, and then you start catching yourself before you say those things out loud.

Marissa: I'm gonna go try to practice not saying negative things about myself for today.

Amanda: Only positive self talk, and to really laugh at yourself when you do fuck up. It's your money. And it's your time. And it's up to you to clear the room. And so I'll just tell somebody or tell the person myself, “Hey, I'm going to need to be by myself for the next two hours, here's the frigerator and there's the outside door.” I do that now and I didn't used to because I was so into the thing where I felt like I either had to get along to get anywhere or not hurt anybody's feelings, but I'm just tired of being nice in that way. Now I just need to stand up for my self and not worry so much about everybody else's damn feelings.

Marissa: If you're a man and you're doing that, it's called being strong. And if you're a woman and you're doing that, then it's called, you know, being a bitch and stepping above your place.

Amanda: Or even worse being called crazy, or being called a diva for something that everybody else gets the right to decide in studios, I've seen it happen. 100% nobody's saying that guy's crazy.